FROM JOE
I'm always searching for what I really believe. Balanced between church
culture, scripture and what I feel in my own heart. It's not often. I
find something I feel is helpful in finding that balance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CIw6ngIqaD0
I would love to hear your thoughts
FROM STEVE:
ReplyDeleteJoe,
When I think about what Ravi states I find that the influence of the past 37 years of church, the myriad of teachings, the current world culture of inclusiveness, and my own “ can’t we all just get along” mentality leads me to a place where I kind of knee jerk react to teaching that dogmatically tells me an opinion is irrefutably the same as Gods opinion on the issues. For example I recently met two wonderful women who are in a committed gay “marriage”. They apparently love one another and live in fidelity to one another, as far as I know anyway, they appear to be kind and not militant, overall they are both very likeable “normal” people. And I find myself thinking that the love of God is greater than our opinions about their homosexuality. But, is it greater than our opinions about those who live in a life style like these two women. I know that Paul says no homosexual will enter the kingdom of heaven. That is black and white, that cannot be misinterpreted. It has been taught that Paul meant and we should correctly interpret this passage as “all homosexuals will go directly to hell to suffer eternally”. Therefore some people who are homosexually monogamous and confess that Jesus is there Lord ( I know; incongruous), their behavior is what prevents them from receiving grace i.e. salvation.
So I struggle with that whole concept. However, I think what Ravi states rings true, yet still leaves me with a nagging little interpretive uncertainty. No room for God to do his thing, if we are wrong. I guess inwardly I believe that the Bible does in fact answer this question. I am just not convinced that “not inheriting the Kingdom” means tortured eternally in a hell with a fire burning that never ceases for all of eternity. Like what, the burn blisters just keep blistering forever? Death by a million thousand paper cuts forever? A million sharp sticks in the eye forever? For having same sex sex. It must be the un-pardonable sin.
I just want everyone to be happy, and that colors my thinking or at least causes me some uncomfortableness (a word??), Because these apparently nice, caring, women do not seem to be bad or hurting anyone or evil. In the end I will leave it up to God to decide who gets in and who doesn’t. Personally, I want to believe his grace will surprise us, I may be wrong, it is just what I “want” to believe. So that is my take on the clip you sent.
My name is Steve Walsh and I support this statement.
We should be struggling with what we believe, to think we have all the knowledge about everything correctly down pat is delusional. To struggle , I think, means we care about what God thinks. Struggle on my brother. I can hear you sighing Joe Slowey, this is just a discussion.
All the best,
Steve
Ravi makes an interesting distinction between "Salvation" and "affiliation with the body\church". He does not exclude Homosexuals from salvation, but says that the sin of homosexuality precludes them from fellowship in a Bible believing church.
ReplyDeleteIs the Bible as written perfect ? Was it really Gods heart that we burn our daughters at the stake for being disrespectful ? Did God really demand death for a man caught picking up sticks on the Sabbath. I love the scriptures and believe they contain the voice, word and breath of God. But that voice came through imperfect men on a very poor connection. I just can't say it is without error. I find myself more of a Unilateralist these days.
Jesus said he came to fulfill the will of God. Gods will is that NONE should perish. Did Jesus fail at his mission ? When Jesus said "it is finished" did he really mean he gave it his best but Gods ultimate will is not to come to pass ?
Does the culture of our day effect how we hear God ? How we prophesies ? How we see him ? I say it does, today as much as 4000 years ago.
In the end I'll agree with Ravi that Homosexuals can be saved. But I can not say I am comfortable with the Evangelical position that makes them all second class citizens.